Rob Bell - (reviewed) Velvet Elvis

Rob Bell - Velvet Elvis (reviewed)

I found these reviews on Amazon.....I am posting because I think it is good for us to be exposed to different viewpoints, thoughts, ideas, and even the tone in which one writes.

B. Billerbeck – New Christianity scares the old guard

If you're surrounded by Christians, and your idea of an outreach is a potluck? This book isn't for you, but if you're willing to go out into the world, and embrace people who have sinful lives, and sinful pasts? You'll get it. Rob Bell doesn't change the Gospel; he's saying that Christianity must morph to be relevant. If you're still playing the organ? Chances are you're not aware of the fact that kids today are having rainbow parties.  Jesus ate with the sinners, and that's what Rob preaches. The Gospel is offensive, but we as Christians, don't have to be.

Roberto – I’m going to be sick

Is THIS Christianity is about?! All of this hate-speech and sounding off on Rob Bell is seriously making me ill. I have a couple of issues with the book, but I would never seek to spew the hatred and darkness that I see in these reviews. I just want to know one thing...all of you who negatively review the book AND

Bell

's character with hate speech ("Seeking Truth", "A Follower of Jesus Brad", and "West Michigan Culture" to name a few more recent haters), I ask...are YOU a follower of Jesus? Do you love your enemy in ANY way whatsoever, or are you simply getting your kicks out of poking at the man? And if he IS your enemy...why? After all, do you honestly believe that he is doing something other than trying to help people and show them Jesus in a different light? Do you honestly believe that the man has ill intentions? Even if he does, a big IF, what good does it do to post all of this negative hate speech?

Now, for the flipside. What is up with those of you who are doing the same thing toward the one-star reviewers? (I would put examples, but there are numerous entries that could fit here) After all, in my humble opinion there are a few intelligent, well thought reviews here that give the book poor marks. When I try to look at things from the perspective of these seemingly-intelligent individuals, I can't really find a problem with it. After all, some things in the book COULD be interpreted a couple different ways, and if a certain person's interpretation of something

Bell

wrote is offensive to them and their belief system then I expect a one or two star review. What's wrong with that?

My point here is this. I believe that some of you hate-spreaders out there, whether your negativity is targeting

Bell

or the one-star reviewers, ARE followers of Jesus. However, if I can give some loving advice I think you need to take a deep breath and relax. Jesus is NOT glorified or well-represented by your hate. If you disagree with the book, fine...but don't attack your fellow brother in Christ (

Bell

) when he is simply trying to love people and encourage them. If you disagree with the negative reviews, fine...but tell us what in the book was good and don't attack those who may be your brothers or sisters in Christ just for giving the book bad marks. There are a LOT more important things going on in our world. Where's the love?

Brad “A Follower of Jesus”

Grand Rapids

,

MI

– There’s a reason the typeface is gray

As for me, I laugh every time a Rob Bell fanatic posts a review of Velvet Elvis. Each one only proves two things:

1. The negative reviews about the book are absolutely correct, and

2. Rob Bell's book promotes dissention, arrogance and divisiveness

So, please, by all means. Continue to post your reviews. The world is watching.

To answer comments raised by a few reviewers:

(a) Rob Bell is NOT "just a man." Rob Bell is (allegedly) a teacher of God's Word. He is a man who leads a congregation of some 10,000 people. The standards imposed on him -- both from the Bible and from the public at large (especially now that he wrote Velvet Elvis) -- are much higher than standards imposed on everyday Christians. If a person in Rob Bell's position writes a book that, by most unbiased accounts, undermines faith in the Bible, criticizes those who seek to defend the faith, and ultimately pits Christian against Christian I'd say it's time to judge the man by his fruits.

(b) Those that support Velvet Elvis and blindly follow Rob Bell do so by quoting Rob from the back of his book: "Test it. Probe it. Don't swallow it uncritically. Think about it. Wrestle with it." And then they point their fingers at those who did just that (and decided the book was seriously flawed) and say, "See?!?!?! You people aren't reading what he wrote! He didn't say to believe every word of his book!!!" If that's not a case of circular reason, I don't know what is. Just because people have read Rob Bell's book and have concluded it is chock-full of the same kind of thinking that liberals have used to undermine the Bible for decades does NOT mean they've somehow swallowed the book whole. And just because some people conclude that Rob Bell's book is wonderful and uplifting and grand and glorious and the next best thing to the New Testament (which Rob seems to dislike a great deal) does NOT mean they're abiding by Rob's disclaimer to read the book critically. I can't seem to understand the reasoning Rob Bell's followers employ. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't follow standard logic or reason. For the record: THOSE WHO WROTE THE CRITICAL REVIEWS HAVE FOLLOWED ROB'S ADVICE TO THE LETTER; THEY'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IT, WRESTLED WITH IT AND HAVE EVEN HELD IT UP AGAINST THE BIBLE -- AND THEY FOUND VELVET ELVIS SORELY LACKING. Just because you disagree with their conclusions does NOT mean (unlike you) they failed to think critically. Yeah. I agree with many reviews. That's a very arrogant way to think.

(c) Rob Bell is big on metaphors. So what could we readers conclude from the use of a pale gray typeface throughout the book? Exactly! Rob sees the world in shades of gray. No black and white. Therefore, his assessment of the Bible is colored with the same shade of gray. To Rob Bell -- as exemplified in Velvet Elvis -- there is no absolute. Everything is fluid. The Bible doesn't really mean what it says it means. Jesus is just another wise man. Truth can be found in every religion. And those who try to defend the Bible and their faith are guilty (to use Rob's word) of "brickianity." Rob likes to tell stories. He likes to use metaphors like jumping on a trampoline to mean something profound. But, in the end, all he's done is create a congregation that thinks like Rob Bell -- in shades of gray. This is the ultimate irony. Rob Bell tells his readers to be critical of his book. So what do they do? The swallow it whole and then turn on those who see how unbiblical it is. I hate to awaken Rob from his reverie, but Christianity makes claims about itself that ARE absolute. Everything about Christianity is black and white. That's why Jesus had to come down to earth to save us from our sins! God couldn't tolerate any sin at all in us. Any speck of it came between us and Him. That is an absolute. All or nothing. Black or white. So if there are no absolutes and if the Bible doesn't really mean what it says it means, and if all religions offer truth, then what's the point of Jesus? What role does He play in Rob Bell's scenario? Right. Jesus, in Rob Bell's world, is not THE way to heaven; and best He's A way to heaven. (And you can quote all you want from Rob's book in which he claims to have faith in the traditional creeds, but his words throughout the rest of the book make those words laughable.)

(d) Many rabidly pro-Velvet Elvis reviews have raised the spectra of "fear" and "old world thinking versus Rob's fresh new thinking." However, to that, I say the "fear" seems to be coming from those who support Rob Bell. They're afraid of logic and theology and centuries of tradition. For the record: There are churches, believe it or not, that revel in theology and tradition and logic that are doing very, very well. There are churches -- gosh, I'd go so far as to say -- right here in West Michigan that are thriving even though they're crammed to the rafters with those who Rob Bell says are guilty of "brickianity" and even more guilty of being knowledgeable enough to defend the faith with vigor. Those who see mega churches (like Mars Hill) as being the only ones with the Spirit of God in them would do well to remember a lesson from basic anatomy: growth does not always equal health. In fact, cancer is nothing but growth. And it's often as deadly as any poison. It's time to stop thinking in terms of Rob Bell versus everyone else! There are more options available than just Rob Bell's!

Just so you know: I apply Rob Bell's disclaimer to myself, too. From time to time, I step back and critically review my opinion of Velvet Elvis. I test it. I chew on it. I wrestle with it. If there are ever moments in which I feel like sipping the Kool-Aid and just thinking the world is a gray place, I read the latest batch of pro-Rob

Bell

 reviews and I'm immediately cured.

Anonymous – West

Michigan

 Culture

This is fascinating book. Especially to those of us from

West Michigan

. So for those of us from the West Michigan, we should help those from outside of this culture understand the history of Mars Hill as it relates to the Rob Bell phenomenon since it is now being seen from those who are not familiar with our culture. After all, shouldn't Rob's book be held to the same standard that he holds the most influential book in the history of the world to? I have just a few questions for Rob and his followers since he encourages us to ask them.

Why do you aggressively seek to devalue the New Testament? It seems that in turning to the Bible with questions created by your book that the majority of answers from the Bible and the pastoral epistles (1 Timothy--and on) directly address leaders like you? Leaders who doubt the scripture, subscribe to myths, and encourage people subscribe to their false doctrines? (1 Timothy 3, 4, and 2 Peter 2 to name just a few) With the formula for cultural relevance that you have taught us do those scriptures not apply to us today?

I scratch my head when I read Velvet Elvis pages 99-105. You paint the picture that you and your wife were sitting at a Taco Bell in LA and you randomly moved across country and had a supernatural first Sunday at a building with no sign. This section sounds really cool, sounds really miraculous and is critical to your defenders and critical to your story. Sounds good, but, factually it is only partially true and bordering on an out right lie.

Factually, Mars Hill is a church plant from

Calvary

 

Church

in

Grand Rapids

. Factually they encouraged their following of 5,000 to break off and go and support your church. Factually, they marketed for you. Factually you worked for three years at a rapidly growing mega church in the area as a pastor. Why would you paint your story and leave out three years? This section when read through the eyes of cultural relevance (thanks for that tip) causes me to question you even more.

Read this quote from Christianity Today: "Ed Dobson says of Bell, "Rob is driven by a passion to teach the Bible, shaped by understanding the Bible in its context, then applying the Bible to where people live. At the core, he's about the Bible." It was with Dobson, at

Calvary

 

Church

in

Grand Rapids

, which

Bell

served as associate pastor for three years before

Calvary

supported the launch of

Bell

's postmodern congregation. Today

Bell

is also heading Nooma (think pneuma), a ministry producing short dramatic videos of

Bell

's talks, shot MTV-style amid city streets, airports, and forests (www.nooma.com) " 2004

So with endorsements like this from the most respected leader in

West Michigan

why would you leave this out of your story? I don't understand why there is not one acknowledgement of

Calvary

or Ed Dobson in your book. Has something changed between 2004 and the publishing of your book? Again, I am just asking questions because I am confused and you have given us that ability with your instructions. Why do people in

West Michigan

call you a Charlatan? Why do they call you a hypocrite? Why do they call you a heretic? If you turn your back on a nice church that supported you are you not going to turn your back on nice people that have supported you from the beginning as well?

Jonathan Haussler – Holland, MI – Why all the hate?

I have been to Mars Hill services a number of times, heard Rob Bell speak, and have found his messages to be honest and probing. I started and finished this book today and am slightly bemused by all the negativity surrounding this release.

Rob Bell is a bright man who tells it as he sees it. I feel that in today’s world, especially the ultra-divisive post G.W.B.

US

that has used Christianity to segregate the nation; we have tried to see the world in black and white only. The truth as I see it is that there are far more then two sides to every issue, especially something as complex and meaningful as Christianity. All Rob Bell is asking is that we need to probe the Bible constantly, keep studying it, keep reading it, and keep searching for meaning. He gives us his interpretation of life, the Bible and some insight into his life, to help us forge a better understanding of who he is and where he is coming from with his message. There is a reason 1000 people turned up on Rob Bell's first Sunday at Mars Hill 6 years ago, and for anyone who has visited Grandville, MI to hear his messages you understand how electric and how involved of an audience he captivates on a weekly basis.

I find it ironic that the people who are posting messages tearing apart his literary work are only strengthening the message that he delivers about Christianity in his book. This is a book that will challenge you, it will make you think, and it will make you grow. If you believe that Christ is in everything that you do and that your relationship with Him should always be added too, strengthened and continually pursued. That you should always be questioning. Well, then you'll love this book.

If you morph into a Christian every Sunday, content to waste your hour neglecting the pastor's messages, then by all means save your money and don't purchase this. I'm sure Rob would rather it that way.

Comments

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I hope MM stays he's the closest thing we have to Newman. Though I thought MJ was also!!!

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what Mag said. I'm grateful for his teaching. ........

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what Mag said. I'm grateful for his teaching. .........

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.You're a braver woman than I it was weeks before I could even begin to think about looking at the incisions from my lap. Even now I don't like to touch them.

They're...squishy.

[Laura]

Just saying after reading all the reviews, it only makes me want to read the book more. Thanks for convincing me that this is a must read, with all the negative reviews it seems like you are all just pushing the book into others hands.

[Nate J]

What an excellent book!

[Nate J]

What an excellent book!

[Bob Williams]

Wow! It's amazing what different things we can take away from the same text. Like any book (including the only one that counts) you can take things out of context and make a case for a lot of things. I don't think Bell's intentions are as open ended as they can sound. For example, I did not take his statement on Jesus being the way and the truth and the life to mean that he was endorsing any other way or religion. I thought the point he was making is that Jesus isn't just handing us a ticket to heaven but he's asking us to subscribe to His way of life. He's not just the way to heaven -- He is the way to a more fulfilling life here on earth. I like the idea that we have some responsibility to work toward God's restoration of the earth. We're not just waiting for this life to end to get to a better one, God is making this world better now.
No human viewpoint is perfect and we'll never agree on everything, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some interesting things in the book that are worthy of examination.

Bob

[Arnold]

...what Mag said. I'm grateful for his teaching.

[Magdiel Hernandez]

About all this craziness concerning Rob Bell and his work in the ministry; I don't know the man personally, but I have read Velvet Elvis and I have seen all of the NOOMA videos. From time to time, I order sermons from Mars Hill. I have to say, I have been encouraged and challenged in my faith like no other time in my life. His ministry has blessed me and the collegiate group of which I am the minister. The reality is that we all have things in our closet and we all have things we've done in the past that follow us and that people use to discredit us. A very wise man once said, "He who has no sin, cast the first stone." Don't worry Rob...you keep serving and writing and teaching. We'll keep probing, chewing and wrestling. May God bless you all and remember the two greatest commandments.

In His service,

Mag

[Magdiel Hernandez]

About all this craziness concerning Rob Bell and his work in the ministry; I don't know the man personally, but I have read Velvet Elvis and I have seen all of the NOOMA videos. From time to time, I order sermons from Mars Hill. I have to say, I have encouraged and challenged in my faith like no other time in my life. His ministry has blessed me and the collegiate group of which I am the minister. The reality is that we all have things in our closet and we all have things we've done in the past that follow us and that people use to discredit us. A very wise man once said, "He who has no sin, cast the first stone." Don't worry Rob...you keep serving and writing and teaching. We'll keep probing, chewing and wrestling. May God bless you all and remember the two greatest commandments.

In His service,

Mag